killing_rose: Baby corvid, looking incredibly fluffy and adorable (fluffy raven)
[personal profile] killing_rose posting in [community profile] knitting
So I am currently working on the Wonder Woman wrap (http://www.ravelry.com/patterns/library/wonder-woman-wrap) that's been making the rounds. It's a solidly written pattern. I do freely admit that I am only partially using the pattern; making substitutions and changes is my prerogative and also something that I do on most projects because I can't work with fingering and thus have to make changes to almost any pattern.*

It's also fairly easy, relying on garter, M1, and kfb for most of the shaping. The points of the Ws are made by double decrease. However, it does use short rows. This is, apparently, a reason many people I know do not want to make it.

This is like my at least fifth short row project in a year. I really love short rows. I was, thus, exceptionally confused a couple months ago when someone at the knitting table said, "I don't do short rows. They're difficult and fiddly and I don't like them."

So I poked at them to explain this. And this is when I discovered that this person was under the assumption that there's only one technique for short rows. Guys, here is where I admit: every person I know who likes short rows has their own personal favorite technique. But most people who have met short rows and run away screaming have never said, "I hate this technique, but maybe I won't hate another technique." Mostly because there are like five different ways to do it, but since they evolved in different places, not everyone's heard of them. So, this is me, giving resources in case you want to knit the above project (or a different one) and you just really cannot bring yourself to like short rows.

I loathe wrap and turn with every fiber of my being. It doesn't work for me. It just doesn't. My first couple projects used the yarnover technique. Unfortunately, this doesn't work for all projects. So the first project I made that used wrap and turn I dropped in a heap and said, "NOPE" at very loudly. And then I got a book from the library and studied all the different options to try and figure out what might work for my brain.

And when I found one that worked for me, I hung out at the knitting table, checked my phone a couple dozen times to make sure I was doing it right, and clung to it like it was the best thing ever. Now, I use that particular technique any time there's a short row project I'm doing. It saves my sanity. (It also means I've never had to use safety pins in my work; there was a project where I may have, in frustration, snarled out the words who the hell thought that the Japanese short row technique was the fastest technique on the planet and or their favorite. However, there are people who do so, and this is fine. [When I am not being introduced to new and fun ways to torture my brain mid-project setup. I am not at my best mid-project setup.])

For me, German short rows are my very favorite thing. This is a good tutorial for them: http://www.lamaisonrililie.com/knittingtherapy/german-short-rows

This is a good instruction for wrap and turn: http://knotions.com/techniques/how-to-knit-short-rows/

This is a free class by the author whose book saved my sanity: https://www.craftsy.com/knitting/classes/short-rows/35255

And this is the book in question: https://www.amazon.com/Short-Row-Knits-Workshop-Learn-as-You-Knit/dp/0804186340/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8

As an important note, for patterns like the Wonder Woman wrap, where they use w&t, you knit the stitch you're supposed to wrap, flip around to the other side, and do the german short row technique on that side.

So, what's your opinion on short rows? Or Wonder Woman? Or both? :)


*This is, I note, not a "I don't like fingering" but "I have two projects in fingering right now, and even on size five or six needles (let's not talk about the idiocy of the size 4 project), it still makes my poor, abused hands [thank you chronic illnesses] make me nauseated and need more pain meds." But some yarn is really pretty, so I do about three projects a year in fingering and the rest in medium, chunky, or bulky yarns.

(no subject)

Date: 2017-07-27 01:24 am (UTC)
mommy: Pixie; Uncanny X-Men (Fairy wings and magic rings.)
From: [personal profile] mommy
It took me over a year of sock knitting before I figured out that the wrap and turn method even existed. I'm sure I wouldn't get along with short rows if I'd been taught that method first.

(no subject)

Date: 2017-07-27 02:36 am (UTC)
thistleingrey: (Default)
From: [personal profile] thistleingrey
Short rows are great! I do German-style ones usually, or sometimes shadow wrap (associated with Alice Yu and covered in Carol Feller's recent short-row-themed book). Carol Sunday's version with the yarn strands as markers doesn't work well for me because the yarn falls out (or I don't have enough longer bits to bet used, or something).

(no subject)

Date: 2017-07-27 05:06 am (UTC)
tephra: Close up of doll hands holding knitting in working position. (knitting)
From: [personal profile] tephra
I only use wrap & turn in garter stitch these days. It was the first technique I learned (short row heel on my first socks) and I hated the results so I avoided short rows until I stumbled across Japanese. I then used that exclusively for a while, using paper clips for my turnings. Finally I found a video that really explained how to do German short rows clearly for me and I doubt I will use anything else, at least where I won't have to stack turns.

(no subject)

Date: 2017-08-10 05:21 pm (UTC)
tephra: Close up of doll hands holding knitting in working position. (knitting)
From: [personal profile] tephra
I haven't tried German in garter stitch yet, largely because my current garter stitch project with short rows stacks the turnings at spots. I've been told you can't form a double stitch on a double stitch, which makes sense to me but I haven't tested it, and in a project is not the place I want to do that. So that one is using w&t since I don't have to pick up the wraps in garter.

The paperclips were useful since I could color code my turnings and tell at a glance if I had done all of them in any given section of the project. :)

(no subject)

Date: 2017-07-27 07:32 am (UTC)
vae: (Default)
From: [personal profile] vae
I don't mind wrap and turn and I like German short rows, but mostly I always get lost on the counting which is why I avoid short rows, because I don't know if I've got it wrong until 30 or so rows later. And there doesn't seem to be any consistency on whether pattern writers mean "knit until the previously wrapped/turned stitch and then include that in the x more stitches" or if they mean "knit up to and including the previously wrapped/turned stitch and don't include it in the x more stitches" and there are always other patterns to knit.

(Wonder Woman is made of awesome.)

(no subject)

Date: 2017-07-27 10:59 am (UTC)
tree_and_leaf: Isolated tree in leaf, against blue sky. (Default)
From: [personal profile] tree_and_leaf
Thank you - I hate wrap and turn, and I didn't know this alternative existed!

(no subject)

Date: 2017-07-27 01:39 pm (UTC)
spikewriter: (knit not kill)
From: [personal profile] spikewriter
I used paperclips back when Mom taught me how to do short rows back when I was young. Now I often use the shadow wrap technique and find I don't have to use them. And since I prefer a sweet tomato heel in my socks, I do short rows on a regular basis. I do w&t, shadow wraps, and I've done german short row from time to time, though it's not my favorite.

And looking forward to my Wonder Woman wrap -- the yarn's been ordered and hasn't arrived, plus I'm doing Tour-de-Sock at the moment.

(no subject)

Date: 2017-08-10 08:16 pm (UTC)
spikewriter: (knit not kill)
From: [personal profile] spikewriter
That's one of the things I love about knitting moving out onto the internet -- there's so many new things to learn. For years, I only knew the way to cast on that my mother had taught me, the basic knitted cast on. Imagine the fun, 30 years later, to get out on the internet and discover the long-tail cast on and German Twisted Cast On (which is my go-to for socks). And Judy's Magic Cast-On for toe-up socks, which I've discovered works for circular shawls and causes far less headache for me than any of the other methods.

That's the fun of Tour-de-Sock, that there's always a pattern which gets an "Oooh, haven't tried that before." Plus, I'm firmly on the team that's hanging out at the bar, not trying to climb the mountains. :)

(no subject)

Date: 2017-07-28 02:11 am (UTC)
oakmouse: (Scotty whiskey)
From: [personal profile] oakmouse
Thank you for this entry. I haven't tried short rows yet, being a late bloomer where knitting is concerned, and they scare me a bit. It's wonderful to have this list of possible methods as a resource, and to know that if one method doesn't work for me there are other good ones I can try.

(no subject)

Date: 2017-08-12 03:45 am (UTC)
oakmouse: (Default)
From: [personal profile] oakmouse
I used to be terrified of cables, but it turns out that they're really easy. Janet Szabo of Big Sky Knitting wrote a great book on cable knitting for beginners, Cables: The Basics, which I highly recommend.

Good for your roommate! *grin*

(no subject)

Date: 2017-07-29 01:22 pm (UTC)
raynedanser: made for me by me - NO SHARING (misc - knitting)
From: [personal profile] raynedanser
I've done German Short Rows and I do W&T. I don't really have a preference. So far, those are the only 2 ways I have done short rows.

I have also seen the WW wrap and think it's pretty cool, but I hadn't really looked at the pattern much.

(no subject)

Date: 2017-08-12 01:54 pm (UTC)
raynedanser: (Default)
From: [personal profile] raynedanser
Shadow wraps? I'm going to have to check those out.

I'm truly growing to love doing stranded work. :)

(no subject)

Date: 2017-08-02 04:51 am (UTC)
vilakins: (knitwit)
From: [personal profile] vilakins
Thank you! That's a wonderful pattern and it's now next on my list.

I've heard people talk about German short rows so I finally looked it up and I really like the idea; I'll definitely be using them in the WW shawl.

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