(no subject)

[muladhara]

Hi guys, lurker and knitting n00b here. I apologise if there's an answer to this somewhere on the community but, at the time of writing, I don't have time to look.

See, I like making stuffed toys - I can also crochet, so that's easy, just going round and round, but with knitting, double pointed needles present me with a problem - laddering between the stitches over two needles. Is there any way to fix this?

I suspect the answer is "practice", or "circular needles". Practice I can do; circular needles, not so much (short of cash and nearby sources to purchase from). Any advice would be gratefully received, as it's driving me demented.

ETA: I just wanted to say thank you to everyone who left comments and advice on this post. You are all awesome! :D

Comments

[afrikate]

The trick is to pull the yarn very tightly when you are crossing over between needles. You can also knit through the back loop when you are crossing over--twisted stitches are a little tighter anyway, so that helps. Mostly, though, it's just practice. Good luck!

[muladhara]

I did try pulling it tighter, but I will certainly try knitting into the back loop. Thank you.

[antisoppist]

Probably practice, but other things that can help are:
1) knitting on more needles - if it's getting stretched between needles, add an extra one into the round and knit on 4 with a 5th rather than on 3 with a 4th (this might mean buying another pack of needles though).
2) move the "gap" round as you go so it's not always the same stitches where you change needles. When you get to the end of one needle, knit a couple more stitches from the next needle onto that one before putting the new needle in. If you're still getting gaps, at least it will be in a spiral rather than a ladder.

[uninvitedcat]

I tend to use your second suggestion, although rather than always going forwards I will occasionally stop knitting and shift the stitches around the needle set. I guess, depending on the number of stitches you have in your round, that's pretty much like a bigger jump forwards! It helps break up the spiral though.

[muladhara]

*nods* I figured it was practice, but did wonder if there were any "fixes" as well.

We have loads of dpns in the house since my gran was a mad knitter, so I can probably make up sets into five. In fact, one set I did use was already a five, so my gran probably knew about that (shame she isn't around to be asked, really. I feel like such an ass asking what seems like a really obvious question).

Thank you for answering, though c:

[antisoppist]

I'm only aware of the difference because I was taught to knit socks in Sweden where dpns came in packs of five. Then I came home to the UK and found I could only get packs of four and had to keep buying two lots.

[muladhara]

I checked some of my sets - I've got some for knitting socks that I bought in Lidl. Since they're a German company, the pack has five needles (I say this as if it's obvious because I sometimes buy Regia, which is a German made yarn, and their default sock pattern is made on five needles). Any others I've bought recently all have four (and guess what? They were all British!)

They are much more sensible on the continent!

[vae]

Mostly practice, but I find if I pull the second stitch tight - not the first one on a new needle, but the one after that - it's pretty effective at minimising laddering.

[elfin]

This is what works for me, too. Pulling the first stitch doesn't seem to make any difference, but the second helps.

[havocthecat]

I tend to give an extra tug or two on my yarn to tighten up both stitches after I knit them.

If you (you = OP, not elfin) do this, I feel you may not want to knit with a more loosely spun yarn, like Noro Kureyon. Which is gorgeous, but when I knit it with double pointed needles, I end up breaking the yarn constantly.

[muladhara]

Much as I would love to use Noro Kureyon, I can't afford it (I wish I could though, because it's gorgeous looking). I'm using mostly acrylic at the moment, although I have some wool mixes, so I'll bear that in mind.

Thank you c:

[muladhara]

Thanks for that, I will certainly give it a go! c:

[hyperbole]

Opposite to other commenters, I've worked out that if I knit more loosely overall, laddering becomes less of an issue. (And by 'more loosely' I mean a comfortable tension that I can do quickly and evenly, and that makes stitches that move along the needle easily. I used to knit extremely tightly, and knitting became much more enjoyable once I realised that's totally not necessary for me.) I've tried all sorts of tightening combinations and twisting of stitches and liked none of them - so don't be afraid to play around with different suggestions, even if they seem counterintuitive. :)

I've also learned that what looks like awful laddering in the middle of knitting often looks a lot less drastic a few inches on, and also that blocking can really help even things out.

[muladhara]

My tension is fairly loose, although I'm sure it could do to be a bit looser, as I get hand pain sometimes and I believe tight tension doesn't help that.

But thank you for your suggestions. I shall definitely see what I can do and what happens c:

[adair]

Circular needles are not necessarily the answer if you are knitting something fairly small, like most stuffed toys. As you reduce the circumference a circular needle becomes impossible to use and you need to switch to the double-pointed needles. I have to do this on watch caps, and toy heads and arms and legs will get small faster. Learning double-pont technique takes some practice before it gets fast. I find pulling the second stitch and moving stitches if I can helps a lot. With stuffed toys you are probably not using sock yarn but you might need the tightness I use there.

[lannamichaels]

Not to tell the OP to buy circs, but just a note on this: on circulars, you can do magic loop, which is amazing and really magic. :) I don't own dpns and can still do small stuff. :)

[muladhara]

I do have some circular needles (probably should've mentioned that, huh?) but not a lot of sizes. I will have to check out the magic loop (I have heard of it, but thought it only applied to sock knitting).

[lannamichaels]

Magic loop is great for anything small; I use it to start hats, for example. Magic loop requires a reasonably flexible and reasonably long cable. I use knitpicks options needles, which are really flexible and come in different sizes. I've never tried it with other cables, so I'm not sure which sorts have flexible enough cables.

[muladhara]

Awesomesauce! I don't know how flexible my circulars are, apart from the metal cabled pair (they don't like me ;) ). But I would've thought most types with a nylon cable should be OK (guess it depends on the make like everything else, though).

[ariandar]

I use a pair of circs the same size, all the way down to closing the toe of socks (10 stitches on each). Works very well. Definitely flipping them around frequently as it gets smaller and smaller of course!

[rivenwanderer]

TECHknitting has an article on this:
http://techknitting.blogspot.com/2007/04/how-to-avoid-ladders-on-dpns-double.html
In the comments, she also mentions using a crochet hook to create an extra column of stitches after the ladder has appeared (the same way you'd pick up a dropped stitch).

[muladhara]

Ooh, thank you! Also that about using a crochet hook seems so obvious now I think of it, because that's what you can do with dropped stitches, isn't it? Hmm, I might have to try it out on my knitted cat (whose ladders caused me to post this in the first place).

[hobbitbabe]

Having a loose bit at the change of needles is almost never a problem for me and I'm not sure why not.
- I do knit quite loosely overall.
- A lot of what I do on 4-5 needles is ribbing or another springy stretchy pattern.
- More needles, so that the angle isn't as severe.
- When I notice a problem, I tend to tighten up after I've done the first stitch on the new needle. Otherwise, I don't do anything special, because I've heard that trying to tighten the first stitch actually makes the gap more noticeable.
- In a familiar pattern, I just don't worry about it because it always looks fine after it's off the needles, especially after it's been washed.

[fire_my_spirit]

I also move the gap as antisoppist suggested above, usually by two stitches each needle. The first few times I worked with dpns I also got the laddering, but once I started scooting everything over every round, it vanished entirely. Most of what I do is stuffed toys and armwarmers and I haven't had a problem at all.

[muladhara]

I will definitely bear that in mind next time I'm working on dpns.

Thank you c:

[mewsing]

Here's a post from Ravelry that I have found to be helpful:

Use 5 needles (4 with stitches, 1 working). This cuts down on the angle between needles and lessens the chance of ladders. It’s also typically useful for socks because there are usually 4 or 8 pattern repeats around the leg, and a lot easier in regard to the heel.

When going from one needle to the next, knit the next 1 or 2 stitches with the needle you just finished filling, and then slip them onto the empty needle. It’s a lot easier to knit with a needle that already has a few stitches on it. This also helps with ladder problems, yet allows you to maintain the same stitches on the same needles. Try not to loosen the stitches too much when slipping them though.

I usually keep the needle in my left under the next needle and the needle in my right over the previous needle. This way each needle has one side over and the other under. It allows the best flexibility for me when trying to manipulate multiple stitches (ie k3tog or whatever). ETA: I also keep the next needle on the left between my index and middle finger… seems to keep it under control. It may work better for you some other way though. Experiment.

I also usually cast all stitches onto one needle and then divide them up. This is similar to the “knit the next stitch and then slip it” point though… helps avoid ladders.

When I go to join it into the round, I switch the first and last stitches. I think it makes a tighter join so there isn’t a gap there. Just make sure the stitches all have their “bottoms” at the underside of the needle and you shouldn’t have too much trouble with twisting.

Last tip. Don’t use super long needles when you only have a few stitches on the needle (6” work for socks… 8” seem way too long and unwieldly unless you’re making super large socks). Also, try to keep the needles centered (ie, don’t have the stitches at the end of one side of the needle with a bunch of empty needle sticking out the other side). It makes it less… pointy.

http://www.ravelry.com/discuss/techniques/115169/1-25#17